{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/pg1hh6d170/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Celebrations: Douglas Barbour"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/128/original/UA_Logo_WHT_RGB_%281%29.png?1725471982","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis recording is \u003ca title=\"In Copyright\" href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en\"\u003eIn Copyright\u003c/a\u003e and is made available for non-commercial research and educational purposes, with permission from the rights holder(s). The University of Alberta wishes to hear from any copyright owner, or their representative, who believes that this recording has been used without authorization. Please contact \u003ca title=\"aviary@ualberta.ca\" href=\"mailto:aviary@ualberta.ca\"\u003eaviary@ualberta.ca\u003c/a\u003e. You may display/perform this material for non-commercial research or teaching purposes. For all other reproduction, performance or distribution uses, please contact the copyright holders\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Barbour, Douglas (Author)","Barbour, Douglas (Performer)","bpNichol (Author)","Scobie, Stephen (Performer)","Balan, Jars (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1983-10-19 (Publication Date)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Event Location"]},"value":{"en":["University of Alberta"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Interviews (SpokenWeb)","Readings: Poetry (SpokenWeb)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Oral interpretation of poetry (Topical)","Interviews (Topical)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Analogue (Recording Type)","Audio (AV Type)","Reel to Reel (Material Designation)","Magnetic Tape (Physical Composition)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Note"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eTitle Source: Title was written on tape.\u003c/p\u003e (General)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["sb397942m (avalonid)","UAA-1985-99-2 (Accession Number)","UAA002 (sw)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date First Ingested"]},"value":{"en":["2021-02-11"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis recording is \u003ca title=\"In Copyright\" href=\"https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eIn Copyright\u003c/a\u003e and is made available for non-commercial research and educational purposes, with permission from the rights holder(s). The University of Alberta wishes to hear from any copyright owner, or their representative, who believes that this recording has been used without authorization. Please contact \u003ca title=\"aviary@ualberta.ca\" href=\"mailto:aviary@ualberta.ca\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eaviary@ualberta.ca\u003c/a\u003e. You may display/perform this material for non-commercial research or teaching purposes. For all other reproduction, performance or distribution uses, please contact the copyright holders\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Alberta Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Alberta Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/128/original/UA_Logo_WHT_RGB_%281%29.png?1725471982","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/134/046/small/UAA002-front.jpg?1748365640","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 1985-99-2-a.wav"]},"duration":1813.54812,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/134/046/small/UAA002-front.jpg?1748365640","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-ualberta.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/134/046/original/1985-99-2-a.wav?1660911076","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":1813.54812,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[Deepgram Transcript] 1985-99-2-a.wav [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Hello, and welcome to Celebrations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=0.1199,3.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMusic:\u003c/strong\u003e [Instrumental Brass]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=3.0,43.1615"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Douglas Barbour is one of Alberta's best known poets and critics of contemporary literature. A familiar figure around the University of Alberta, where he lectures in the Department of English, he's the author of no less than nine books of poetry, including \u003ci\u003eLand Fall\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eShore Lines\u003c/i\u003e, \u003ci\u003eVisions of my Grandfather\u003c/i\u003e, and \u003ci\u003eSelected Poems\u003c/i\u003e, the latter to be issued shortly by Edmonton's NeWest Press. He is also the editor of a number of anthologies, and is a prolific reviewer of new poetry, as well as forming one half of the sound poetry duo \"Re:Sounding\" with his friend and fellow poet, Stephen Scobie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=43.1615,77.41258"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Tonight on Celebrations, we feature Douglas Barbour in his own words, performing and discussing his poetry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=77.41258,83.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Anger Song Number 1.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=83.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e With no warning, the night for Annie descends, it's like a song, the melody gone, the words stating in memory and whose ideas of lust are we speaking of anyway. Her eyes shone once, that's how a romantic song writer would put it, to say nothing of her lovers who all compare them with stars, of course, the night bright with radiance till morning whitens the sky, and the sun rises like desire once again. Oh, God, not another sexual cliche that misses the point, misses Annie completely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=87.0,123.81078"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't understand. Did no one notice Annie disappear? Compare her life, not her eyes, I say, but those guys won't listen to me. I could as easily be on TV, the sound off, what do I have to tell them anyway? I could compare them with something, but for now I'll just suggest that they don't really care about her at all. She's not really the image they seek, she's simply gone and good luck to her. She deserves some. [Audience Laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=123.81078,155.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Anger Song Number 2.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=155.0,157.85795"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e When everything meshes perfectly, it's lovely interaction, soft generation of liquid vowels, consonants, woman and man together. Together, she stoops, he stoops to enter or she rises in pride over him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=157.85795,175.00568"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e It would be folly to turn away from such pleasure and who's that foolish? Who finds pleasure in love is only too willing to taste it all and too late she discovers that it's not always that simple. Some men find it easy to betray such loving. Some women, too. And what can you do then? Is love's charm enough in the face of stupid remarks? Can anyone take thoughtless cruelty forever?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=175.00568,201.49837"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e It might soothe her pride to know she's not the only one, but her rising melancholy only feeds on that news. What can anyone do alone? Turn to art. Don't be silly, art can only do so much, it won't wash pain away. And pain is her companion now, or guilt, which is stupid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=201.49837,222.7305"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e He went away from her, and the goodbye when it came was his. Only, she wishes sometimes he hadn't gone. Her art was loving. Now her craft must be to live. Guilt is all very well, but it tends to hinder living, to cover you in a decision, to lock you in your own prison where you hide from everyone, even yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=222.7305,243.74007"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Take her now, thinking it her shame that he left. She should turn from that thought. It's his fault. Every time she tried to look him in the eye, he turned away to hide his deceit. He would give nothing away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=243.74007,259.59772"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e There's no repentance on his part. He's gone to Toronto or London or New York, leaving her just like the others, a part-time lover, now a memory, and a good story for the guys. Why, he'll wring every drop of emotion from it. It's his passport to good fellowship off his bosom buddies of beer and chips. Is that finally enough to turn your stomach? Then tell the bastard to die, or at least piss off and stop bothering your heart. [Audience Laughs and Applauds]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=259.59772,293.56668"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm gonna take you back, back into your past. You can pretend you're on a couch and telling me the story of your life. Did you come from a literary family or where... Do you have any literary uncles or aunts, someone that encouraged you within the family?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=293.56668,311.01498"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, not really in that sense, although I do. I had a grandfather who was a painter and was interested and involved with literature and so was my grandmother, and there were always books in the house so I read a lot, but I didn't even start writing until I was in my late teens. Writing poetry. I wrote a science fiction story once because I read a lot of science fiction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=311.01498,330.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I just... I happened to have been one of those lucky people who started reading at the age of five or... I think I was reading well before I got into grade school, into grade one. And the first book I remember reading, though I must have looked at other things before that, was the \u003ci\u003eTales of the Norse Gods\u003c/i\u003e in the Everyman Library, and I read that when I was around five or six.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=330.0,353.2442"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Were you pretty indiscriminate in your early reading —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=353.2442,355.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] Oh, absolutely. Well, then I got into science fiction and read everything I get my hands on, but I also read, you know, anything else. I mean, I was a wide reader. Not much poetry, though, I mean in those days that was all, you know, adventures and things that people, kids read. But I read a lot and I've always read a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=355.0,370.34301"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And the family, and the house was full of reading material, which meant that I... And my parents never more or less pointed things out not to read. So I was reading... Nicholas Monsarrat, things like that, which were there, you know. And there was lots of poetry around, but I didn't read much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=370.34301,383.58066"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e My father was fascinated and involved with the Shakespeare Society, but I didn't know that that much until much later, so it was Shakespeare around, things like that. But I was for a long time, as a high school... As a student in high school, I was convinced all this stuff was crap, you know. But that's because of the teaching.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=383.58066,398.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there a teacher who played a role in turning your attitudes around?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=398.0,403.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Not in school. The teacher who taught me the most about how to write essays was a history teacher, who was really good. English teachers, I more or less ignored them, because I read the books in the first week or two of classes and I... You know, I listened to them, took what notes I had to and passed the courses and went on reading my own books, because I had far more to read than they could give me. Most of the other students in such classes, as you're probably aware of too from your own experiences, were the kind who, you know, worked their way through the few books in the course and had trouble with that. I'd read all the books in the course by the end of the week or the second week.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=403.0,436.20502"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And so then I'd read whatever else there was. So I wasn't really interested in poetry till I was 18, 19.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=436.20502,442.845"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e What got you interested in poetry? Was it somebody —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=442.845,445.725"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] A guy, a friend, a friend I made my first year at University of McGill. I was in Engineering and for some strange reason, although he was in Arts, he was in the same group of 30 students who took... who wrote our essays for a particular, you know, PhD student when we took our lectures in as 500 as a whole in Moyse Hall. And this guy, Jim Rother, who as far as I can tell now did his PhD on Wallace Stevens under... Oh, under the guy who wrote \u003ci\u003eThe Pound Era\u003c/i\u003e, under Kenner, Hugh Kenner. Down in the States, and is teaching somewhere in the States, has never published a book of poetry or anything like that, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=445.725,483.02884"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, he somehow gave it up and went into academia, academic studies. But he published a couple poems, and became a very good friend of mine for the couple of years I was at McGill, in the McGill student mag. And I thought about it and said, you know, sort of, hell, if he can do it so I. [Laughs] So I thought, I started trying to write some. I took a year out, went to Acadia, and went into English because I'd been in Engineering. And then in Science, and in Psychology. Although in my second year, I did take a course with Jim, under Louis Dudek, not writing, but just of twentieth-century literature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=483.02884,520.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And I went to Acadia and started writing poetry there, and published — We started a magazine at Acadia that year, and published a few there, and luckily they're hidden. Hardly anybody can find them now, but that was my beginning and I kept on, and now I've got eight or nine books or whatever it is. And poor Jim, who I haven't been in touch with for now close to 20 years, as far as I know, I've seen an essay by him in \u003ci\u003eboundary 2\u003c/i\u003e, but that's about it. So he's probably publishing stuff like that. Doesn't seem to be publishing poetry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=520.0,549.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you go —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=549.0,550.38811"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] So I am truly a late bloom in that sense. You know, I mean, it's all started very late for me. Maybe good or maybe bad because, of course, when I started reading poets and getting interested, the ones I was reading were the language-oriented poets and it led me very quickly, although quite superficially at first, towards very contemporary poetics, American poetics, especially.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=550.38811,572.2509"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Who had a big influence on you, in terms of poets? Were there people that you read obsessively for a while?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=572.2509,579.0247"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. In the early sixties, when I was starting to write, when I was at Acadia and then when I went to Dalhousie, I... For some strange reason, I was back in Montreal where I had lived and gone to McGill. One day I walked into a bookstore and on a table for 98 cents was \u003ci\u003eThe Opening of the Field\u003c/i\u003e by Robert Duncan. For 98 cents, why not, I'll pick it up, right? I was beginning to pick up books of poetry. Well, that just absolutely blew my mind. And Duncan was associated with Creeley and Levertov and Olson, and I slowly tracked some of them down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=579.0247,612.9737"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And especially Denise Levertov at that time was probably the most influential because she was in some ways the clearest and the most, you know, immediate. But Duncan, I loved for some of the poems in \u003ci\u003eThe Opening of the Field\u003c/i\u003e, and Creeley I didn't pay much attention to then, although I read some of him. Olson, I managed to find in Dalhousie — somewhere in Halifax of all places, a copy of the first edition of \u003ci\u003eThe Maximus Poems\u003c/i\u003e, so I bought it. And read it, didn't understand more than about, you know, a tenth of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=612.9737,640.47936"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e But, all these, again, openings, and I guess I was picking up, by that time — I never had a copy, but friends of mine had copies of \u003ci\u003eThe New American Poetry\u003c/i\u003e, so I was reading all that, yeah. And it made for... So that was the influence in terms of language. Then in Canada, Purdy's \u003ci\u003eCariboo Horses\u003c/i\u003e appeared shortly thereafter, I got a copy of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=640.47936,661.501"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And a few other, I mean, Layton, I had \u003ci\u003eThe Red Carpet of the Sun\u003c/i\u003e [sic: should read \"A Red Carpet for the Sun\"], which I didn't like that much, but then he came and read it down, and I sort of liked it a bit, but I never got really that turned on by him. Purdy was important. And then by the time I got in '65, and I was still really a very young apprentice in some ways, to Queens, there was a lot of poets there, who were both friends and people I learned from: Michael Ondaatje, I met bpNichol at that point, and bp has been a major influence, I'm sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=661.501,690.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And began reading lots more people, but the other big influence at that time, in terms of my recognizing that I could learn, learn, learn from her, was Phyllis Webb, especially \u003ci\u003eNaked Poems\u003c/i\u003e. So in a funny way, the two who probably had the most influence at the time I was really recognizing that I was learning were Denise Levertov and Phyllis Webb, two women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=690.0,711.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you really came to an interest in writing through contemporary literature, rather than classical literature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=711.0,718.64355"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I was also taking courses in literature and reading a lot. And, of course, I went back and read Pound very carefully in the year before I went to Queens, when I had a year off between my MA and my PhD. I'd been reading Olson and I thought, well maybe I should go back to the master's masters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=718.64355,729.8128"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e So I went back and read the whole \u003ci\u003eCantos\u003c/i\u003e and everything I get my hands on at that time. And you know, didn't understand that much again, but was learning Pound's magnificent control of line, of melody... I mean, his sense of melody, things like that. And, insofar as I think I can say anything about what I can do in a poem, I've got a fairly good sense of line and rhythm, and a fairly good sense of patterning language for sound effects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=729.8128,757.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And that's something I began, I think unconsciously, to get very interested in very young because the poets I chose to be interested in... I mean, Robert Lowell and some of the other Americans were very big too, but I read them, understood them, and didn't — wasn't moved much, even though they were full of all this confession of, you know, what they were doing and all that. It was all very witty and ironic and highfalutin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=757.0,780.0832"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And when you think about it, Olson and Duncan, these other people are just as learned, although in a weirder way, but they were of course the unacademics supposedly. I wasn't that interested in the pure beats either that much. They were too loose and too idiomatic. They weren't, you know, there was no control there. I mean, there is, but not as much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=780.0832,797.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e It was truly that central corps of poets in America who were language-centered, who were really fascinated with the language and with the American language. And I went back to Williams who I studied a bit carefully at one point when I got \u003ci\u003ePictures of Brueghel\u003c/i\u003e [sic: should read \"Pictures from Brueghel\"] which is just a beautiful, beautiful book, right? And so that line from Pound through Williams to Olson in that level. And then on to the groups in Canada who are probably the ones I admire most, which are, you know, Marlatt and Bowering and Davey and Nichol and all these people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=797.0,826.58119"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And I'm still learning from anybody who comes along and seems to be doing something well. So I've never thought that you give up being influenced, in a sense you're always taking account of new possibilities and learning from them. But what I want to add to that is the fact that I still don't think I was being terribly un-Canadian by paying so much attention to these American poets. In first place, they were not American imperialists. Olson's major statement is \"you must write from roots, from the ground you live in,\" and that means that if you live in Canada, you write from there, and that's the same thing that Williams is implicitly saying with \"Paterson\" or anything else, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=826.58119,862.17413"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Secondly, as Daphne Marlatt put it marvelously, she said, \"I wanted to learn certain things about language, and these were the poets who had something to say about it.\" It wasn't a question of not being Canadian, it was question of finding who could talk to. The other thing, which is something that emerges from things like Diane Bessai's series of lectures this year and a lot of other things, is that there may have been a tradition within Canadian literature, but nobody knew it was there because it kept getting lost.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=862.17413,883.86127"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e So you've had people starting over and over again throughout the last century, thinking they had no Canadians they could look back to, and it's only with the last generation that there've been enough of them, and they've made enough of an impact, that the younger writers today can look back and say, \"hey, I don't have to go outside the country, there are all kinds of writers right here.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=883.86127,900.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e But when I was learning to write, even though I had taken a course from Louis Dudek and sort of knew that he was a poet, too... Didn't know any of his books, didn't know where to track 'em down. I later started reading his little magazine, but it was years later that I started reading his poetry and realized that of course, he was another person in that line from Pound in his own way, right? Corresponding with everything else. That knowledge, that information, just simply wasn't available to us as young writers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=900.0,925.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Performing] What we two do is sound poetry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=925.0,926.06"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eStephen Scobie:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] What we two do is sound poetry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=926.06,929.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] To poetry, sound is what we do. What poetry we do is to sound. Poetry is due to what we sound. What is poetry, we to sound? Sound too is poetry, we do what? What we do to poetry is sound. Sound. Sound. Sound is sound is sound is sound is sound.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=929.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eStephen Scobie:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] To poetry, sound is what we do. What poetry we do is to sound. Poetry is due to what we sound. What is poetry, we to sound? Sound too is poetry, we do what? We do what? We do what? We do what? We do what? We do what? We do what? Sooooound.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=930.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e You work in a lot of avant-garde forms: sound poetry, deconstructions, homolinguistic translations. We've going you interested in postmodern poetry?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=960.0,971.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I guess part of it was I was, on one level with a fairly structured sense of it, I was there from the beginning in that I was interested in contemporary poetics of the voice and that. But I... and working with language. But quite frankly, it was the influence of friends and, well, really friends, bpNichol, the Horsemen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=971.0,992.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e So it was a circle of people you were involved with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=992.0,995.3707"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Circle of people I was involved with. I mean, I came to a lot of that stuff really holding back. I mean, when I first came here and Stephen Scobie was here, he was already into concrete poetry, and I still hadn't thought concrete was anything. And then we started talking about it, of course he started showing me stuff and suggesting that, well, of course, it's fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=995.3707,1012.6369"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, we began. We began doing it. I began seeing that there were possibilities there. Homolinguistic translations, bpNichol and Steve McCaffery had been doing some of that stuff, and we got quite interested and started playing games, too. And then the thing blossomed into some new forms that we invented or partially invented or at least reinvented, and we were having a great time working with it, so we ended up, you know, with a complete book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1012.6369,1036.2706"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And the sound poetry really started around '72-'73 when Stephen and I went to give a reading together down in Red Deer and they had this stage with the stereophonic system plus two mics, and we couldn't resist. So we did a piece of bpNichol's that he'd done for one voice, and we turned into a piece for two voices. And then over the years, that went on, we stole pieces from some other people and turned them into two voice pieces or started writing our own. And eventually, I think, you know, are doing mostly our own work now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1036.2706,1065.234"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e But this was something that in no way were we innovators, we were followers, people who come along later and do it, too, and do their own version of it, but are not the ones who originate it. I see someone like bpNichol as one of the real researchers, you know, at the very edge of what's going on, who's discovering these things for the first time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1065.234,1085.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e But as he points out, you have at least three levels of writers, you have the people like that, then you have the people who come along and recognize that something is happening there and begin to do it, too. And so they're not original researchers, but they are expanding the possibilities and doing some of that stuff. And then you have, always, a lot more of the more traditional writers who are, you know, maintaining connections with the past and doing the stuff that's probably a hell of a lot more accessible to the average poetry-reading public.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1085.0,1113.1481"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e I would point to someone like Pat Lane for that, right? I mean, he's a writer who is really quite traditional and at his best when he is most traditional in some ways, but who also is fully aware that he wants to be pretty traditional. And we'll talk about the fact that he's probably working with fairly... if somewhat hidden metrics rather than just with open form and that sort of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1113.1481,1134.9558"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Picnic in a coulee in a cow pasture. But I couldn't tell a story. The novelist unable to tell a story. The ghost of my father, there in the shadows — the story-teller. \u003ci\u003eThe 'Crow' Journals\u003c/i\u003e, Friday July 25 1975, Qu'Appelle Valley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1134.9558,1150.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Story for A Saskatchewan Night, for Robert Kroetsch. One.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1150.0,1155.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Coyotes maybe hidden nearby, I am silent, the ghost in, the shadows waiting to speak, but I am silent. Listen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1155.0,1166.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e No. There is no story. That is what I have to tell you. I have to tell you, there is no story tonight. There is no story here, listen. There are all too many stories clamoring and I have to tell you I can't tell them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1166.0,1184.11197"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e If the cowshit could speak, it would tell you. Nothing. No. Well, nothing you don't already know and the grass talks on of dying, of dying, to feed the goddamned cows. This isn't narrative, hell, it isn't even complaint. The flames die too, and their story won't stay still. You can't follow the changes, modulations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1184.11197,1207.255"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e The sky is full of stories. Those bright eyes looking down on the prairie I can't begin to tell you about. Listen. All the stories you won't hear about that train now. Its long roar fading in the dark. No. Now that we know there's no story at all, we can begin to tell it. Listen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1207.255,1233.17464"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Two. What the silence said was nothing. Nothing we could listen to. We could hear the silence. It wasn't saying anything but the stories, stars spatter on the night sky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1233.17464,1249.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e That train dopplers away. WHOOOEEEEE. Whooeee... We hear that tale, every day, each night, of its retreat, running like the storyteller, not saying a word, into the darkness and away from some place. Or the cows, no longer seen but listen, their stories are shumpff, mumchpht, chumpff. [Audience Laughs] The chewing over of what vast metaphysics, the grass also refuses to speak, or the crickets.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1249.0,1282.6847"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e The writer refused to tell a story or, no, the writer told us he couldn't tell us a thing, and we listened again to the silence, no, silence, and all it had to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1282.6847,1300.3131"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e What are your work habits like? You've published eight books now. And I'm wondering if you can see the book as a whole first, and then work on pieces of it, or does it kind of emerge?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1300.3131,1310.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e [Overlapping] No, it usually grows. I mean, most of my books have been books, only the first little book, a very thin one, was a collection of, you know, individual lyrics. Although I've got individual lyrics scattered all over magazines and things. I've got plans probably for a book that will be, you know, a gathering of a lot of stuff, someday, that'll be just a gathering.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1310.0,1333.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And I may or may not do that, but I also have... The next book that I do as book will probably be a selection of sequences, again, one of which isn't complete yet because I've got 31 of the \"breath ghazals,\" but I don't know if I'll write any more or not, and every time another one comes, it adds to the sequence and the sequence holds together by the form and the idea of breath. So as long as I keep writing them, the poem keeps extending itself, and that's a kind of serial form in some ways. Some of the others, yeah, after I got going, I realized that I had a book here. Like the \u003ci\u003eSongbook\u003c/i\u003e, I realized that certain poems were songs and others weren't, so I would be writing poems during the year and a half or two years I worked on that, and certain ones would fall into the \u003ci\u003eSongbook\u003c/i\u003e manuscript and others would fall into the loose leaf whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1333.0,1381.652"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e Against that, some of the other sequences are groups that I recognized go together and they're sequences, so the poems fit together and I maybe even started that way. \"Moonwalks\" was a series of poems I wrote during the moonwalks, so that fit. I'm gonna have, I think, a selected, a new poem soon that will be a, you know, that would be excerpts from the earlier books plus some of the newer stuff that's around, and it hasn't been published in book form yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1381.652,1412.454"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e But I haven't thought of it as working quite in the serial form as some people define it, and that I've been aware that I've been writing books and that they have to extend quite that way. And yet, I certainly have worked with... If not serial, with nevertheless sequence or with groupings of poems. And I like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1412.454,1430.4939"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it gives a book a greater solidity when you can have it, you know, around something, not a theme, but just sort of searching some kind of concept or sometimes some formal thing, right? But at the same time, one ends up writing a lot of little pieces, some of which are okay, some of which are lousy, which just, you know, are there and you send them out and they get published in magazines, things like that, sometimes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1430.4939,1455.889"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e You teach, you are active in the literary community, you are active as a reviewer. Do you find it hard to find time to write? Do you have to discipline yourself and force yourself to set aside a certain amount of time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1455.889,1470.6908"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e I have to, but I don't. I think what happens is that sometimes I get lost from poetry for awhile. I mean, I think of it as the most important thing I do, but I also don't do as much of it as I do other things because I trap myself into having so many responsibilities like, reviewing most of the books of Canadian poetry that come out every year, you know, short reviews and things like that. I didn't think I'd get any writing done this winter because I had a big essay to finish, and then I had some other stuff to do, and then four courses to teach this term, but all this action and all this activity, I kept finding myself writing poems at the week after, you know, one of the weekends because I'd have been provoked by somebody else's writing to a kind of intertextual response.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1470.6908,1510.5859"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of my writing is intertextual in that sense in that I'm often playing off something else that a previous text has engaged. And so I've written a few poems this winter, which, you know, are fairly nice or I'm pleased with parts of the \"breath ghazals\" series and they were all sort of emerging from some provocation in other writers being here. But I haven't been doing that much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1510.5859,1534.0106"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e On the other hand, you can't sit down, like, go to a retreat and say, \"oh, I'm gonna write a whole bunch of new poems while I'm here,\" because you can't be sure you'll get new poems. You can go and work on stuff, and maybe something will come. A couple years ago I got 15, a 15-poem sequence in two days. But that was because I'd been there for a week, and I was really into thinking poetics, and the poem sequence was more or less about the idea of poetry, and it all fell together. I had 15 first lines from various other poets, and they became the first lines of my poems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1534.0106,1563.985"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e So this was again, I mean, purely intertextual on that level. It was not quite homolinguistic, but each poem of mine began with the first line, first of five poems by Duncan, five poems by Olson, and five poems by Levertov. But the whole 15 made a sequence and they were all tied together by the... probably by the fact that I had all these things going through my head at one time, and I wrote the whole thing in such a flash of, you know, of inspiration, so to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1563.985,1588.4827"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have any intentions of going back to your literary roots and writing a science fiction novel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1588.4827,1594.71335"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e No. I can't write prose... Well, I can't seem to write novels or fiction. Almost every other poet in the country is writing fiction, but it seems I'm gonna be a holdout. My prose is all, you know, non-fictional. And whenever I do have an idea for a science fiction story, I then remember a day or two later that I read that in 1951. [Laughs] I love science fiction and I'd like to write it, but I don't seem to have the knack for narrative. Or for characterization or, especially, I guess the most important one, for getting people to talk on the pages that, you know, so they sound real.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1594.71335,1631.28869"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e And maybe these are things you can learn, but I've got too many other things, I guess, going, that I do. And in my poetry, even, I move pretty quite far away from the usual topics of poetry. A lot of people, I think I'm not ignored, but I mean, a lot of people keep saying, \"why doesn't he write more about people and about involvement or emotional situations?\" And, well, hell, I'm emotionally involved in my poetry, but I'm often emotionally involved with language, and it's on another level and I guess a lot of people aren't interested in that, so they don't see it as being highly emotional. To me, it is. I'm, you know, terribly brought up about it and all that, or really involved. But it's a kind of austere or abstract involvement, I guess, for some people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1631.28869,1672.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDouglas Barbour:\u003c/strong\u003e So I don't have that kind of immediate impact that, well, even, again, Lane's a bad person because I don't mean to put him down or... it's certainly not there, but what Ondaatje has, where they have marvelous handling, sometimes of, you know, emotional events or emotional crises or things like that. Sometimes, I think it gets into my poetry, but a lot of time, I just start writing to find out what I'm gonna say or what I have to say, as Creeley put it, and that's usually... Sometimes it's something very, maybe, light. But if something emerges that sings a bit, then I feel happy with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1672.0,1705.0"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMusic:\u003c/strong\u003e [Instrumental Brass]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1705.0,1715.0214"},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJars Balan:\u003c/strong\u003e With that, we conclude this brief profile from the literary history of the University of Alberta. Be listening next week at the same time for another program in this series of broadcasts. The Celebrations theme is Fanfare La Peri by Dukas, as performed by the Gaelic Brass for Argo Records. Celebrations is a 75th anniversary production by the Department of Radio and Television at the University of Alberta. I'm your host, Jars Balan, bidding you a pleasant good evening. [Instrumental Brass Continues]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046#t=1715.0214,1743.6958"}]},{"id":"https://ualberta.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1783/collection_resources/59233/file/134046/transcript/71523","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English 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